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Post by Shin RyuKen on Sept 14, 2012 15:48:39 GMT -5
Actually Tok they're not really "good guys." Gregor Samsa may be envisaged as good guys but they're in essence a bunch of superpowered rebels equating to the 99% movement, they aren't necessarily good. They train a bunch of soldiers to subvert a kingdom, and whether or not it's for the greater good can be interpreted in many ways.
Shemhazai could probably even be argued as more "good" than Gregor Samsa in the Huey Freeman vs. Riley Freeman sense, because they're at least upfront about what they want even if they terrorize citizens to achieve their goals. Gregor Samsa keeps trying to dodge a bunch of proverbial landmines but they're still questionable about their means...and the people they hire to be agents(see: Cathan). Shemhazai is essentially the Black Panther Party instead of just "bad guys." They're an extremist left group if anything, but it doesn't make them "bad guys."
Grant also doesn't really have to join Gregor Samsa, he could just as easily use the opportunity to question Shemhazai about the Miasma. He's not obligated to answer the old man's call and time will reveal that his goals are a little complicated than trying to overthrow a government.
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Post by Jisui on Sept 14, 2012 16:24:42 GMT -5
Very good point and excellent post. Something that has been missing for a while now has been choices, like you said. Too often we make a story to immerse others in, but fail to translate that over to an RP. The main difference between a story and an RP is choices, which give significance to the character. It's all good and fine to a good story and simply force the player to have his character experience it, but that's exactly as it sounds, its a story, not an RP. Role Playing. The most interesting part of RPing is interacting with others and seeing how they influence other people and places with their decisions. The most interesting kind, that never really gets done enough, is choices that force the character to make a choice based on their morals and emotions. The Bodizu fight was an excellent example of such a choice. Rather than straight up make him a boss battle, the RPer really did have a choice whether or not to fight him (as shown by Noki, who stood down). To fight him was essentially attacking a confused, innocent soul who didn't really know what was going on. To not fight him was to lose a chance to regain Carl's body, who was one of the more popular characters among the group. In real life, there really isn't a clear right or wrong answer to go by. There's things that are morally gray, and you can't really justify either side completely. Is it right to kill an innocent person to save another? That's the kind of fascinating dilemma that never really gets pushed around enough. What about the infamous Velcan or Bastille choice? Look at it from this perspective, Tael's point of view. Velcan has essentially took everything away from Tael, kingdom, father and all. Bastille has been an ally for a relatively long time. Yet, Velcan promises that he can revive all of the people who have died thus far (sounds legit ). However, siding with one means losing something else. If you side with Velcan, you lose Bastille. If you side with Bastille, you lose Suzuki, and more importantly to Tael, Elesia. Isn't that a tough decision? There's no right or wrong associated with either (well, the latter choice can be argued...), and that makes it kinda fascinating. It involves you in every way. It draws you in, and makes you feel like you have the opportunity to influence things. Truly, not every choice has to be such an important one as the one's listed above. How about Sougenmou? Choosing to go with Grant, Vydunas or Veronica? Max will inevitably have to choose between Kali/Elaina/Etc/Suicide Spot (hopefully not the last one). But choices are what make RPing fun. And if you make a story and want to involve everyone else, then there's certainly no reason not to involve everyone else, and have them make choices that could shift it in various, branching directions. Stories are built in stone. RPing should be flexible enough to account for actions that, may or may not happen. When everyone feels involved in something, not even just RPing, they're more likely to enjoy it, and get into it much more.
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Post by Tokrochiru on Sept 15, 2012 7:07:25 GMT -5
Actually Tok they're not really "good guys." Gregor Samsa may be envisaged as good guys but they're in essence a bunch of superpowered rebels equating to the 99% movement, they aren't necessarily good. They train a bunch of soldiers to subvert a kingdom, and whether or not it's for the greater good can be interpreted in many ways. Shemhazai could probably even be argued as more "good" than Gregor Samsa in the Huey Freeman vs. Riley Freeman sense, because they're at least upfront about what they want even if they terrorize citizens to achieve their goals. Gregor Samsa keeps trying to dodge a bunch of proverbial landmines but they're still questionable about their means...and the people they hire to be agents(see: Cathan). Shemhazai is essentially the Black Panther Party instead of just "bad guys." They're an extremist left group if anything, but it doesn't make them "bad guys." Grant also doesn't really have to join Gregor Samsa, he could just as easily use the opportunity to question Shemhazai about the Miasma. He's not obligated to answer the old man's call and time will reveal that his goals are a little complicated than trying to overthrow a government. I've yet to see any in-game evidence of Shemhazai being "good guys" in any way, but then again, the only people who've informed our characters are in direct opposition to them. I have just about as much reason to "feel" like they're an evil faction as you do to "feel" that Marble is completely railroaded. I think we both need to not make judgments when there's a clear lack of evidence.
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Post by Jisui on Sept 15, 2012 11:27:36 GMT -5
Actually Tok they're not really "good guys." Gregor Samsa may be envisaged as good guys but they're in essence a bunch of superpowered rebels equating to the 99% movement, they aren't necessarily good. They train a bunch of soldiers to subvert a kingdom, and whether or not it's for the greater good can be interpreted in many ways. Shemhazai could probably even be argued as more "good" than Gregor Samsa in the Huey Freeman vs. Riley Freeman sense, because they're at least upfront about what they want even if they terrorize citizens to achieve their goals. Gregor Samsa keeps trying to dodge a bunch of proverbial landmines but they're still questionable about their means...and the people they hire to be agents(see: Cathan). Shemhazai is essentially the Black Panther Party instead of just "bad guys." They're an extremist left group if anything, but it doesn't make them "bad guys." Grant also doesn't really have to join Gregor Samsa, he could just as easily use the opportunity to question Shemhazai about the Miasma. He's not obligated to answer the old man's call and time will reveal that his goals are a little complicated than trying to overthrow a government. I've yet to see any in-game evidence of Shemhazai being "good guys" in any way, but then again, the only people who've informed our characters are in direct opposition to them. I have just about as much reason to "feel" like they're an evil faction as you do to "feel" that Marble is completely railroaded. I think we both need to not make judgments when there's a clear lack of evidence. Believe SRK was simply making a note based on what's happened thus far (6 pages). He didn't say it was completely railroaded, just guided mostly by you so far.The RP just started out anyway. No one will blame you for pushing the RP forward a bit lol.
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Post by Shin RyuKen on Sept 15, 2012 12:42:51 GMT -5
Actually Tok they're not really "good guys." Gregor Samsa may be envisaged as good guys but they're in essence a bunch of superpowered rebels equating to the 99% movement, they aren't necessarily good. They train a bunch of soldiers to subvert a kingdom, and whether or not it's for the greater good can be interpreted in many ways. Shemhazai could probably even be argued as more "good" than Gregor Samsa in the Huey Freeman vs. Riley Freeman sense, because they're at least upfront about what they want even if they terrorize citizens to achieve their goals. Gregor Samsa keeps trying to dodge a bunch of proverbial landmines but they're still questionable about their means...and the people they hire to be agents(see: Cathan). Shemhazai is essentially the Black Panther Party instead of just "bad guys." They're an extremist left group if anything, but it doesn't make them "bad guys." Grant also doesn't really have to join Gregor Samsa, he could just as easily use the opportunity to question Shemhazai about the Miasma. He's not obligated to answer the old man's call and time will reveal that his goals are a little complicated than trying to overthrow a government. I've yet to see any in-game evidence of Shemhazai being "good guys" in any way, but then again, the only people who've informed our characters are in direct opposition to them. I have just about as much reason to "feel" like they're an evil faction as you do to "feel" that Marble is completely railroaded. I think we both need to not make judgments when there's a clear lack of evidence. We discussed this exact thing in detail the other day on MSN Tokro, there's absolutely no point in bringing this issue to the public all over again. Don't be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative : /
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Post by BloodValkyrie on Sept 15, 2012 14:15:18 GMT -5
Hey, hey, hey. Just cause I'm not around that much right now doesn't mean you can all start stabbing each other in the face. Gaaaaaaaawd.
Although...I don't really have much to contribute to this topic. I enjoy choices and such in the RP, although sometimes I accidentally put myself into the mindset of "I really shouldn't make a character to do this because whoever's controlling the plot right now may not have planned for that". So, sometimes when there's an actual choice in an RP, I fail to notice because I force my character to make a choice that I deem is easier for the current GM to deal with.
This is something I gotta simply deal with on my own, but yeah. Just felt like saying SOMETHING about this topic.
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Post by Tokrochiru on Sept 16, 2012 5:12:33 GMT -5
Believe SRK was simply making a note based on what's happened thus far (6 pages). He didn't say it was completely railroaded, just guided mostly by you so far.The RP just started out anyway. No one will blame you for pushing the RP forward a bit lol. ....Yeah, you're right. I don't think I'm arguing to the sake of arguing, but I do think I'm making assumptions about other people making assumptions, if you understand what I mean. I can take constructive criticism usually, but when I start to suspect people of making presumptuous assumptions, I think I get kinda defensive. Why the hell am I so confrontational? Screw my bullheadedness. As for your concerns, MK II, I'm pretty sure you have the exact opposite problem that I have. XD I guess it's about finding a balance.
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Post by Jisui on Sept 16, 2012 11:23:12 GMT -5
Hey, hey, hey. Just cause I'm not around that much right now doesn't mean you can all start stabbing each other in the face. Gaaaaaaaawd. Although...I don't really have much to contribute to this topic. I enjoy choices and such in the RP, although sometimes I accidentally put myself into the mindset of "I really shouldn't make a character to do this because whoever's controlling the plot right now may not have planned for that". So, sometimes when there's an actual choice in an RP, I fail to notice because I force my character to make a choice that I deem is easier for the current GM to deal with. This is something I gotta simply deal with on my own, but yeah. Just felt like saying SOMETHING about this topic. An interesting point, and something that's actually pretty common. But when someone feels pressured to make a CERTAIN choice instead of the one that most fits their character, that's just an illusion of choice in the first place. A good RP should account for that extra scenario or choice, and shouldn't make someone pressured to select one option anyway, at least in my opinion. Thus, its probably the other person's fault more than your own. This is actually pretty common too, so its not just you Slvr. It's something that people have to simply work on a bit more in terms of making their storytelling a bit more open.
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Post by Greed on Nov 12, 2012 16:50:38 GMT -5
Okay, I'm beginning to tired a little of not having an RP to post in. Anyone mind me bringing back Kyril?
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Post by Jisui on Nov 12, 2012 18:36:42 GMT -5
I can't say I don't know how you feel... (Been writing my need to post away myself). But what would that do? We kinda need people to RP. And as far as I can see, everyone seems busy lol.
On another note though, Thanksgiving Break is next week. Could always be a good chance to see where we're at.
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Post by deathsentence on Nov 12, 2012 22:29:44 GMT -5
Short-term RP ideas are never a good thing. They won't get accomplished, so what's the point? There would be no conclusion. History taught us this D:<
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Post by Advix on Nov 14, 2012 13:26:53 GMT -5
i don't mind bringing back Kyril. i would give me a chance to apply some of the stuff i've learned since we stopped, and take the Boa arc in a better direction
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Post by BloodValkyrie on Nov 17, 2012 13:06:44 GMT -5
I would truly love to know why Kyril was been brought back without any discussion with I or Mk.I as to whether we actually have any interest in continuing in the first place. On top of that, the reason I have not been posting recently is because I am busy. If I am too busy to post in Sougenmou, how would I be able to somehow make time for Kyril?
Unless, of course, Kyril's participants have already acknowledged and accepted that some posts will take quite a few days.
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Post by Greed on Nov 17, 2012 13:28:04 GMT -5
I would truly love to know why Kyril was been brought back without any discussion with I or Mk.I as to whether we actually have any interest in continuing in the first place. On top of that, the reason I have not been posting recently is because I am busy. If I am too busy to post in Sougenmou, how would I be able to somehow make time for Kyril? Unless, of course, Kyril's participants have already acknowledged and accepted that some posts will take quite a few days.Ding ding ding, we have a winner folks. And as for the reason there's been no discussion? There hasn't been anyone to discuss with in the first place for quite a while. So forgive me, I'm taking a more direct method than I usually do. Now that I actually have your attention, my original plan is this; there are several things I can progress in/have been meaning to progress in that do not necessarily need you to post in them. Another reason is that I was planning to bring it back anyways, as well as the fact that absolutely nothing is going on. With little to no communication, I have no timetable to work off of, no idea what going on with... well, anyone, and no frame of reference for what to do, and where. So clearly, the only thing to do was clear; post in every single thread in Kyril in the hopes that I can at least elicit a reaction or response from SOMEBODY. And lastly, I believe I made my intention clear a while ago that I had no intention of abandoning Kyril completely, so this isn't really THAT shocking. If anything, its been a long time coming, and I'm kinda sad I let Kyril get to that state to begin with, because I disappointed alot of people, some way or another. As for Sougenmou, SRK is still mostly awol 90% of the time : P Not much we can do about that. EDIT: Hi SRK, you magnificent bastard.
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Post by Shin RyuKen on Nov 17, 2012 13:51:45 GMT -5
I'm not involved with Kyril, so go with your gut on that
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