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Post by Greed on Nov 27, 2012 0:29:25 GMT -5
Hey now, a car can't get anywhere without its third wheel~ A car can also not go anywhere with only three wheels. Exactly, if it misses the third out of its four, then its going nowhere fast.
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Post by Shin RyuKen on Dec 16, 2012 14:46:37 GMT -5
A little fairy called Google can grant you the answer to that question, my friend.
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Post by Shin RyuKen on Dec 22, 2012 17:44:31 GMT -5
Combat Mechanics - Standard, Minor, and Immediate Actions
Hey guys. So I've been discussing things with Tokromar again regarding his character and I've had this debate with him about actions his character takes during combat. It arose during the discussion this pet peeve of mine I've always had with people during combat where they end up doing multiple things at once as opposed to someone else, who usually just performs a move action and then some standardized action from then on, such as a physical attack.
I then realized as I have for a while, that we don't really hold turns in combat to any sort of standard. Some people like not being restricted, but this is also a problem if we don't know how much in one turn is fair, so some sort of failsafe in combat would at least remind me how much they do in one turn is reasonable. How the character acts from there is really up to the player, and seeing how this is an RP, nuances in their behavior can always affect the combat environment from there.
I apologize for intermixing D&D terminology, but in that setting, combat is given form by means of distinguishing between standard, minor, and immediate actions. Typically, in one turn, players are given a standard and minor action to perform. Minor actions are usually something the player can do to set up a standard action, such as moving around or sheathing a blade, and the standard action is an action that directly affects the environment around the player, such as performing an attack of some sort. Immediate actions are innate abilities or triggered effects that occur dynamically outside the scope of minor/standard actions and do not affect what the player does usually. Typically, one turn is comprised of one minor action and one standard action, or in some cases, two minor actions. In other words, the average turn consists of Vydunas moving near his opponent to close the gap, then slashing at the opponent for his standard action. If Vydunas is poisoned and takes damage from his poison or his weapon releases some sort of mist that obscures the opponent's vision, that is an immediate action which could occur. There are some leniencies we can incorporate since this RP is much more freeform than normal(ie: unsheathing a weapon can just be a part of attacking as a standard action) among other subtle things, but other than that, this is a typical turn-by-turn basis structure that would be effective in organizing the flow of combat.
Now keep in mind, this isn't with the intention of being restrictive or superimposing D&D mechanics onto the RP. This idea is held with the notion that combat can be held to a common standard; usually, this can be argued against on the basis of how the freeform RP should work, but I think most of us agree that combat isn't the most well-managed aspect of the RP, and most people don't think it's the most enjoyable. A lot of that is, in my opinion, because we often frustrate ourselves with characters that become stronger than they intended, and often, these characters simply do more in combat and that strength looks more profound than it should be. There's a lot of debate over what a turn consists of in combat; typically, a turn isn't more than a few moments, maybe ten seconds depending on what the character does. By giving combat some sort of structure in what characters can do in the span of one turn, it'll make combat more approachable to people, and generally, more enjoyable in a way because we have a better understanding of how a character should act in combat.
This idea will probably not be received well at all because of the buzzwords "D&D" and "standardized" in the context of combat but I'll let people discuss the idea at least before they make any irrational judgments.
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Post by Tokrochiru on Dec 22, 2012 17:58:57 GMT -5
So, in essence, the 3 actions would be
Minor Action: Something that solely effects the person performing the action and does not take long to perform. Unsheathing a weapon, stepping closer to an opponent, crouching, blocking an attack, etc.
Standard Action: Something that usually effects the environment and can typically be done after a minor action. Attacking, blocking an attack if the person has already taken a minor action, using an offensive ability, etc.
Immediate Action: Typically an action that can be triggered on the spot or as an immediate reaction to something in one's environment. Immediate actions generally have to require very little effort to perform in order to be considered as such. Taking damage from poison or some sort of ailment, spitting out a wad of gum you were chewing on in response to someone hitting you in the gut, and just about any action that can be done subconsciously or done on reflex without thinking much (like flinching).
There's also one more kind of action that SRK left out, but it's pretty inconsequential
Free Action: Free actions are pretty much anything that you can do automatically. Breathing, talking, thinking, and blinking can all be done pretty much at any time without the character needing to devote any significant amount of time to it.
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Post by Jisui on Dec 23, 2012 0:54:18 GMT -5
At first, my natural reaction was as you said, dislike, because it seemed like a naturally restricting system that goes against our rather freeform RP. But... you do have a point. Combat in the RP is rather unorganized, and some people don't have fun with it. Having battles segmented into shorter actions might actually encourage faster paced combat, and be more fun in the long run. Or it might just blow up in our faces.
That being said, there's only one way to test this. To the BBA, shall we? : D
EDIT: Based on the BBA, at least for me, there's no real difference between what we usually do, and this system. It might be for others, but yeah, one ability, and one movement is the generally accepted thing to do in a fight. However, this might help for those who are struggling with this concept.
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Post by BloodValkyrie on Dec 23, 2012 16:43:40 GMT -5
I will admit, I did not like how this sounded from the explanation you and Tok gave, SRK. It sounded too restricted and such. But after seeing it in practice, I realize it is not too different from the current way we do things.
I am speaking for myself right here, of course. I would not have to actually change much about how I currently write combat posts since I never really have my characters do several action in a single post. Unless I am trying to rush things along, of course. But that is only when I am in control of such a fight.
This whole process SRK and Tok have in mind is not that different from how we currently do things and should not force any of us to drastically change our current ways. The BBA match between SRK and Hisui is proof of that.
Unless you are an idiot and want to have your character perform a stupid amount of actions in a single instance. In which case, the problem is you. Not the system.
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Post by Jisui on Dec 27, 2012 21:21:21 GMT -5
When reading this idea, please assume that Attacks/Abilities are once again split in half. I thought about some of the bios we have (which more or less consist of large explosions), and I realized that I had thought of a ranking system before, but we never went through with it. And why not? It's just a way to gauge strength and ability. I also thought of RP combat, which most people agree is less fun then RP interaction, and maybe the reason for this, is that: 1) The free-flowing, open-ended style we use does not translate well to combat. 2) Character abilities have no real designated strength, and as such, we don't know wtf will happen if one attack hits another. So try and have an open mind when reading, and tell me your opinion. It wouldn't be that much work to implement either (seriously, you just have to sort abilities/attacks and add a letter), so just think about it objectively. As I discussed with SRK however, this also has issues. There are a lot of abilities that don't apply to pure skill, and a lot of abilities that you can't really rank very easily. What I intended is something similar to Fate/Stay Night's ranking system, shown here: typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Parameters_and_SkillsMad Enhancement Mad Enhancement (狂化, Kyouka?) raises basic parameters in exchange of hindering mental capacities. In some cases, also seals away Personal Skills. A: Rank up for parameters, but most of one's reason is robbed. Due undergoing consciousness equalization with the Master, one has become a more mechanical Servant. B: Rank up for all parameters, but takes away most of sanity. C: Rank up for all parameters except Luck and Mana, but in exchange one can no longer think and speak properly. (In Arcueid's case, it does not go well due a misunderstanding from the Master. Her original Rank in this Skill is A) E: (Kintoki, while not strictly speaking mad, possesses the mentality of a grade schooler and intermittently flies into uncontrollable rampages. It is unclear if this is an effect of Mad Enhancement or his natural disposition.) This is a good example of an ability that does not require skill. The effect and strength of Mad Enhancement is merely increased the higher the rank is. Something similar would be cool for the RP, but that's something we can discuss. Also, I believe this system would encourage greater creativity in bio-making, and encourage a greater diversity of abilities and not just "insert explosion/beam here". All in all, despite whether you like this ability or not, I think combat in the RP is too simplified, and too open-ended. It's just not that interesting anymore, and when "X hits X", we don't really know what to do. There needs to be something that adds a different element to combat that makes it more interesting.
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Post by Shin RyuKen on Dec 27, 2012 23:19:58 GMT -5
"X hits X"
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Post by Greed on Jan 9, 2013 14:04:44 GMT -5
I don't have an excuse, I just plain didn't post.
And I'm probably going to sometime today.
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Post by Shin RyuKen on Jan 9, 2013 14:27:58 GMT -5
Okay, but you need to figure out how motivated you are to continue posting, if you want to at all. This has been an ongoing problem and that's why I'm addressing it right now before I have to remind you all over again. If you feel that your characters are inconsequential to the story that is largely on you to repurpose them to engage in the story. I can only do so much to involve them in the story.
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Post by Greed on Jan 9, 2013 14:41:44 GMT -5
Its no fault of your own, its literally my fault for ignoring the RP to play video games over the break. I'm back in school as of today so this problem should die down from me.
I can't even think of it as lack of motivation, because I've certainly been thinking about the RP enough.
I'll just chalk this up to me being... well me.
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Post by Tokrochiru on Jan 12, 2013 3:19:22 GMT -5
Well, MK II also doesn't have access to her comp atm, so that's another thing.
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Post by Shin RyuKen on Jan 12, 2013 4:09:47 GMT -5
That's irrelevant. Slvr on average has been posting a lot more than Sacchin has even without the presence of time or a working computer of her own.
It sounds to be that Sacchin doesn't have his priorities exact, and should reconsider his commitment on that note if that's the case.
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Post by Tokrochiru on Jan 16, 2013 2:34:17 GMT -5
I feel like I'm going to die from exhaustion.
My apologies for not posting for the past couple days. I've had my work cut out for me with previously established obligations. Working on posting now.
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Post by Greed on Feb 19, 2013 1:45:18 GMT -5
kay
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